Tigers

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This is FUN!! Haha I'm such an idiot!!
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Blackbeard said:
Why only blame Ken? Why not those that buy TCR chips for $1k a rack and then flip them 2 weeks later for $3,500 a rack? I mean fair to say he has definitely played his part in setting the recent market! I mean leaded original casino used... based on the current market of 8 gram chips... why not $1,500 a rack... a few would sell sure! But he would also be stuck with a crap ton of chips not moving. Just a dart board guess but I would guess $4 to $6 range on the low denoms ans working their way up from that!

Why would Jim not try and get a little more of the meat for himself... we all know what's coming in the minutes after the sale... need I remind you on a wanted add for Jack snappers hours after the sale offering 3x what was paid?How about a certain post "interested in spotted hot stamps... offering 3 times the going rate for good chips and we can discuss those more rare!" I mean that was the moment I saw the hobby spiraling down all while TONs of members praised him for his antics.

Round and round the merry go round we go!

Why not those who were able to participate in the very first NAGB... put those chips in a dark closet and every time they need a $10k - $15k pay day they take a few racks of "mint never played" out and sell at max market?

I think.another thing worth mentioning... when Jim started chip room sales years ago there were what 2k members mixed across a couple chipping platforms... during covid we had massive inrush of new members and the Orange place is currently sitting at 13k members. Absolutely agree many of those folks made accounts bought a set and ran, but also how many active members where there in the original 2k? Maybe quarter of them...the indisputable fact is the hobby has grown... they are not making more leaded chips, those found "un-earthed" are yes going to cost a premium and if JIM doesn't charge it... the secondary market will add it for him... and don't worry! If they sell out in minutes or seconds, NO matter what price Jim charges! In the same 24 hour period the price will increase!

I love you Danny but what positive is coming out of that post? I guess in hind sight what positive was going to come out of my first post in this thread.... to be 1000% transparent my Tigers cost me exactly $1.56 less per chip that the prices listed above (not including the 10 plus shipping charges to build the set by barrels and racks at a time about another $.06 per chip brings that overall paid to $1.50 less). Sorry Tuna yes I said $.35 per chip on the phone this morning and I was wrong... I did the math!

Wanna know how many times people have turned profits off of me all the way back to my first chipset built since joining PCF? Who knows... wanna know how many times I sold chips for a profit? Twice.... wanna know how many times people sent me chips absolutely free including yourself? Several! Danny you have been one of the absolute most amazing people I have met on this thing called a chipping journey. Your generosity to myself and others in this hobby has been un-mesasureable!

Wanna know what the first one was... like I would forget... you found a big collection of chips that included Pick Hobson Fracs, it was Easter Sunday and I was with my family and Brie at the Baltimore zoo (at the penguin exhibit to be exact!) I got a little PM back after hoping and praying that you would help a no name guy named Ben after years of blood and sweat painfully building my rack of fracs 1 at a time... I was 37 chips away from putting that dream to bed... standing in the zoo I began crying when I read a response saying "sure Ben I would love to help you finish that dream rack, what price do you think is fair?" I responded " well I have been paying $15 to $25 for these... so you tell me!" You responded "how about $10 a chip for the used ones..." you absolutely did NOT have to do any of that... as a fact many on the forum had been treating you like crap!

Little did I know it was just the beginning of an amazing friendship that grew into so much more than chipping, including hours of conversations picking a guy up that had never hit the ground that hard! The hours of sleep lost just to make sure your buddy was OK! @DuckPlug too! Thank God for your late night routes driving and listening to a 41 year old man balling his eyes out for hours... falling asleep on you and then calling you back minutes after I woke up... I am forever indebted to you both!

Facts are the facts... the chipping market and the "members" of it are going to do what they're going to do! Choose your friends wisely like any other aspect of life... choose to participate in groups that think Farts are funny... if you yourself find fart jokes funny. Be old, crabby and grumpy with other old crappy farts if that floats your boat chips!

And in the spirit of good ole fashioned "burying the hachet"... Let's get back to good ole fashioned Matt's short jokes!
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Go ahead and lift that leg at the table Matty and let one fly to your left... you're damn right I don't want a seat on your right... I be scarred!!
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Also fresh off the press for your viewing pleasure!
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The beardless crusader!!
Blackbeard
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"OK I've had 2 ice waters.... I'm. Feeling quite buzzed... show me!"
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"Sorry Matt... unfortunately we would have to get one of those Tall people to reenact that... otherwise someone would have to get their knees dirty!"

"Damn it Danny... why are you always the voice of Reason! We better get back to the bar before the Wizard of Ozz show let's out and those Lolly Pop Guild bastards try and take our seats!"

This is what happens when you give Ben too much time and nothing to do...
 

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NotoriousBJ3 said:
For not being butthurt, folks sure are acting....butthurt.

I mean how dead can the horse possibly be? Vendors sell things to make money. They make what they can.

If I'm buying a rack I plan to murder and relabel, that adds $150 and months of waiting right off the top. When the work can cost as much as the chips, it can almost seem crazy for some. Until you realize the time and effort it takes. I'm almost surprised by how low the cost is for Kifer milling and Gear labels while at the same time being surprised by how much.

If you're in a TCR sale, transparency isn't the focus because it's a vendor's sale. Post on number count of chips, and your post is likely to be modded. There will be no mention of the fact that cherry picked sets have been pulled out for all of Jim's friends, no mention of how many gold tickets were used, etc. Some sales it's just pure roulette - pay the money and see what you get. IGs were a great example. Some people received sets that were almost entirely fantastic condition, while others received sets that were literally almost 100% flea-bitten disasters. But where else are you going to go?

As a vendor Ken said I have chips, here they are for this much. And no he doesn't share the cost he paid or how many chips he has because that helps him in literally no way possible. Maybe he should also tell us who he ordered from and how? Maybe TCR should give us a Standard Operating Procedure on how he obtains all his chips? Maybe people who have "finds" in the wild shouldn't be allowed to resell?

To somehow say that one is better than the other is a joke and again, mental gymnastics. If you're going to post the same meme 100 times over and tell us again 100 times over how great you are compared to Ken and what you would have done better than Ken and what a bad person Ken is and how much Ken has hurt our hobby and how much your not butthurt by Ken and yadda yadda yadda - make sure you do it with everyone.

And yes Ken has continued to roll out chips. Even I have made a joke at his expense about it. I just haven't focused on it to the point where anti Ken is my entire personality. It's possible to think for yourself and apply critical thought. Y'all can do it!

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I guess you’ve evolved because (and correct me if I’m wrong,) you were butthurt about Ken’s Tiger methods not too long ago, weren’t you? And I didn’t really blame you.
Hey, I understand the complaints about the lack of transparency, especially when the Tiger sales seemed to be marketed as sales that would be fair to everybody. But yeah, that’s probably not a realistic thing to expect or imply.
 
upNdown said:
I guess you’ve evolved because (and correct me if I’m wrong,) you were butthurt about Ken’s Tiger methods not too long ago, weren’t you? And I didn’t really blame you.
Hey, I understand the complaints about the lack of transparency, especially when the Tiger sales seemed to be marketed as sales that would be fair to everybody. But yeah, that’s probably not a realistic thing to expect or imply.
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And what you really mean is...
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upNdown said:
I guess you’ve evolved because (and correct me if I’m wrong,) you were butthurt about Ken’s Tiger methods not too long ago, weren’t you? And I didn’t really blame you.
Hey, I understand the complaints about the lack of transparency, especially when the Tiger sales seemed to be marketed as sales that would be fair to everybody. But yeah, that’s probably not a realistic thing to expect or imply.
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Evolving and growth are always good, but yes and no.

Most any issue I've ever had comes from deception. It doesn't bother me personally at all, but TCR I believe is actively deceptive through omission. I am stoked about the IGs and love that those came in, it's the only casino I've really been in before joining chipping. But "condition varies" does not cover that hey, you're spending $2k for something that might have market value of $5k, might have market value of less than $1k. And by the way your chances are skewed by what I choose to give away beforehand.

Similarly, I wasn't a huge fan of how the wording was in the limit sets being sold for Tigers. It was said there would be 2 available and it would be like a raffle of those interested in for who would get them. So I, and several others, thought we were purchasing a hyper unique poker chip set and later found out that there were plenty sold. Again, something that I could have ascertained by simply sending a PM or post with a question but I didn't.

So no, my opinion for those specific instances hasn't changed one bit. I think they are two examples for TCR and Ken where sure there was probably a better option or description or whatever. But, does that color my entire lens or judgment? Nope. No matter what and how someone sells, there's going to be a snag, an omission, an issue. If we're adults, we should be able to point out if we have an issue or a thought and move forward. To add to my specific scenario, Ken would've happily bought back my set. It was my fault, so I beared the $4k loss or whatever it was.
 

NotoriousBJ3 said:
Evolving and growth are always good, but yes and no.

Most any issue I've ever had comes from deception. It doesn't bother me personally at all, but TCR I believe is actively deceptive through omission. I am stoked about the IGs and love that those came in, it's the only casino I've really been in before joining chipping. But "condition varies" does not cover that hey, you're spending $2k for something that might have market value of $5k, might have market value of less than $1k. And by the way your chances are skewed by what I choose to give away beforehand.

Similarly, I wasn't a huge fan of how the wording was in the limit sets being sold for Tigers. It was said there would be 2 available and it would be like a raffle of those interested in for who would get them. So I, and several others, thought we were purchasing a hyper unique poker chip set and later found out that there were plenty sold. Again, something that I could have ascertained by simply sending a PM or post with a question but I didn't.

So no, my opinion for those specific instances hasn't changed one bit. I think they are two examples for TCR and Ken where sure there was probably a better option or description or whatever. But, does that color my entire lens or judgment? Nope. No matter what and how someone sells, there's going to be a snag, an omission, an issue. If we're adults, we should be able to point out if we have an issue or a thought and move forward. To add to my specific scenario, Ken would've happily bought back my set. It was my fault, so I beared the $4k loss or whatever it was.
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Did you keep the chips Jeff? I mean for the most part it has seemed that most that have been selling have been getting the same prices Ken sold them for. I even said dibs on a thread that was priced higher than original cost and when the seller gave me the total it was the same price as from the chart... I thought that was very nice because I agreed to pay the price listed in the ad.

I don't think a $4k loss is accurate, if sold for less... maybe due to time constraints or helping a friend out, but overall most of them moving behind the scenes have been selling at the original cost from what I have witnessed.
 
Blackbeard said:
Did you keep the chips Jeff? I mean for the most part it has seemed that most that have been selling have been getting the same prices Ken sold them for. I even said dibs on a thread that was priced higher than original cost and when the seller gave me the total it was the same price as from the chart... I thought that was very nice because I agreed to pay the price listed in the ad.

I don't think a $4k loss is accurate, if sold for less... maybe due to time constraints or helping a friend out, but overall most of them moving behind the scenes have been selling at the original cost from what I have witnessed.
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Nope, I was sad and wanted to move on. There were a plethora of racks available at the time due to the recent sales, plus the whole Barrie tax thing, I think the majority were sold at around $600 compared to buying for $950. So all in, I probably lost around $3-4k. One of my sales threads here. Plus my smart decision to sell off $10k worth of chips to buy the limit set during a huge down turn.

Funnily enough, read the comments on the 2nd page of that thread and they're identical to what I've posted her. I.e., final comment shown below.

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I don't do behind the scenes stuff. I don't really PM or text. I don't haggle. That whole aspect is not something I enjoy, which is why my words match my actions. I have two sets left, Paris and Adolfo. Once I get the last of my racks sold, I'll go back to not posting again until we get closer to my next meetup. I was sincere when I wished for a better place since the other wall is all classifieds and this place is this place. As my kids say though, you get what you get and you don't throw a fit.
 
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Realistically, I think chipping has just been transitioning more to the real world - you have to be your own biggest advocate.

I've never been my own advocate and am surprisingly shy and sheepish in most arenas. Having children and a wife has helped me to grow in that regard, in that I feel much more comfortable being an advocate for them and that's had some transitive properties to me personally.

But if you are not someone willing to socially engineer solutions, play the game, haggle, etc., chipping will chew you up and spit you out. To take away from myself earlier, that may be a bigger reason I now own two chipsets. I simply can't afford the time and money invested into chipping just to continually lose on every single transaction. For lack of a better description, I'm just a moron who first overly bought into the idea of community and then 2nd jumped into the deep end without the knowledge or skills to do so successfully.

Unfortunately, this has now extended to meetups. For the last meetup, we had a malcontent who forced their way in, damaged things at the house, made pets sick, slept in a childs bed after making untoward comments about the child, took money, etc. If this happened at anyone else's house/meetup, I would have conferred with the host and then handled packing the malcontent's car and sending them on their way myself. And I would not have to overly kind or quiet about it. But it being my meetup, I was embarrassed and not my own advocate, so just let it happen. The meetup truly is about the attendees not the host, so I'm still happy they had a good time. But between being sick and all the nonsense that occurred, I can think of better ways to spend time planning and $10k+.

So I think I've successfully learned I'm simply not cut out to be an active classifieds chipper and have moved on, and I hope I've learned that I can continue to host successfully but just maybe stand up for my things and my family if issues arise. Maybe that's what's allowed me to distance myself from being so emotionally tied to these sales and clay disks.
 
NotoriousBJ3 said:
For the last meetup, we had a malcontent who forced their way in, damaged things at the house, made pets sick, slept in a childs bed after making untoward comments about the child, took money, etc.
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Wow. I didn’t follow the meetup thread, so I hadn’t heard about this. That’s surprising and sucky.
I’ve probably had 10 PCFers visit my game and every one has been a gem. Maybe I’ve just been lucky. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that there’s an asshole in every crowd, but I’m a little surprised. Sorry to hear it.
 
upNdown said:
Wow. I didn’t follow the meetup thread, so I hadn’t heard about this. That’s surprising and sucky.
I’ve probably had 10 PCFers visit my game and every one has been a gem. Maybe I’ve just been lucky. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that there’s an asshole in every crowd, but I’m a little surprised. Sorry to hear it.
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It happens. It's a local that's had issues for awhile, but honestly just helps in the decision to slowly pull back again once I'm done with moving the last chips as I had done before my meetup came up.

At some point, who has what chips became the most important thing. And even if I don't subscribe to that line of thought, that *is* the purveying thought and train that the majority of the community is on. Perception is reality and all that jazz.

So if someone with a chipping history and nice chips can get away with all that with 0 repercussions, whelp this just ain't the place for me. I'm not sure what else they could have done that would have finally made people say enough, other than I guess purposefully hitting a car or throwing chairs/bottles around. But I get it, I didn't really want to do anything because they know where I live and can affect me at home, work, etc. I have others who said the same thing, they would have intervened except they didn't want to make it worse and he knows where their family lives too.

Oh well. It's an expensive lesson to be sure, but you live and you learn.
 
NotoriousBJ3 said:
For the last meetup, we had a malcontent who forced their way in, damaged things at the house, made pets sick, slept in a childs bed after making untoward comments about the child, took money, etc.
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This, and the fact someone behaved that way is complete and total BS. I don’t know the details, but the little I’ve read from your posts - it’s BS.

You just don’t treat a host, or someone’s house that way. Not acceptable on any level.
 
NotoriousBJ3 said:
At some point, who has what chips became the most important thing. And even if I don't subscribe to that line of thought, that *is* the purveying thought and train that the majority of the community is on. Perception is reality and all that jazz.
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Well welcome to the light! I figured this out a while back - I have no interest in the rat race; I only want a few good chips to play cards with.
So when people use the old man shooting at the clouds thing on me, they’re totally right. What the hell am I doing in a collecting community when I not only have no interest in collecting, but actually a healthy disdain for collecting? Ha!
 
The horse I beat on is the money horse @NotoriousBJ3. I don't care about the money or his profits. The other thing I've never exposed and probably wont is the nasty things old Ken said to me along with name calling and his pompous and arrogant attitude while saying them when I simply asked how many were produced and laughed when they said that cost was at least 4-5$ after shipping and crating. Straight up LIE. You cant say something is rare if you cant prove it. however................. Plus the whole "if I see you flipping them I will remove your ability to buy from me". thing.... Who the fuck are you?

STOP THE PRESSES!

Imagine me saying.... I AGREE WITH MOST EVERYTHING JEFF HAS SAID IN HIS LAST FEW POSTS HERE!
And fuck that guy who wrecked your stuff and all that......

I didn't scroll up but I believe I illuded to was Jim was "More of a chipping hero" than Ken could ever hope to be. Did he sell mint sets to friends? I don't know. If you say so..... Yep his shit his choice. Did he sell flea the hell bitten chips? Yep 1000's of them, for what? $59 cents a chip...... (or there abouts). And correct me if I'm wrong but there was multiple posts in each of Jim's sales stating the number of chips in the buy and updates on what was left. I believe the first time he was pissed and tried to keep the numbers hidden but that passed I think. As far as cost went who cares on a .59 cent chip?

Sounds like Jeff have landed in chipping where I have and Tuna and many others have, enough of what its become. What's it become in my eyes? Hoard chips you don't have sets for or any other plans for other than to break it off in someone's ass for max pain to make a few bucks. And the ass hats who actively look to buy the shit they know you're looking for simply to flip to you later, that's terrible. Some community! I buy few chips these days, I was actually picking singles to finish a few sets and done with sets till the NCL's came up! most likely my last set purchase. Every set I own has a personal connection to my life no matter what they are or how they look. (My daughter is entering management at NCL)!

Shameless Plug: If you're a cruiser and want a connection at Norwegian Cruise Lines hit me up and I'll connect you!!!!!

Any way, I still love the hobby, I enjoy most of the people in it and despise very few who I don't even believe are real chippers. but that's just me.

And @Blackbeard if you believe that PCF has anywhere near
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up over 100 members in just the last 2 weeks (:rolleyes:) I have a bridge to sell you.... Its all there, work the numbers..... I buy forum apps from the same people he does so I know how to manipulate things too.... I just choose not to. I also keep the site up for free to use for the hobby, if they use it, they use it. According to the professionals in the forum business (who also don't believe his numbers) even at that size it is a small forum site. Lets face it its 2700 a year to host it and an extra 80 a month for premium support and maintenance, do those numbers too.... Supporting member, supporting plus, vendor fees (🤣) etc. but he cries he makes not a dime. I hope he does make dimes!! but be real, be truthful. claiming not to make money is a bad marketing tool.

STANDING OFFER: Bring the friendly salesman and Ill finance any NAGB from angel (formerly GPI, formerly Paulson), Ill give you as much finders fee as you want as long as its public knowledge. I'd want @JeepologyOffroad to design them, and be paid for services. I will even run the sale. And do it for a mere fee of .50 cents a chip. Imagine if we made 300,000 beautiful THC chips at a cost of $4 after chips and fees and sold them for $4.50 a chip shipped...... Bang, everyone could afford them and there would be plenty to go round for everyone! Full disclosure on production and cost. That wouldn't help the seller? Exactly right. It would help the buyer. Why wouldn't you?

Bring some civility back to this hobby. Make it a real community, not factional tribes within it. It's become more about the money than anything else.
 
We were having a discussion, but glad we're returning to the main topic of complaining about the other site, how everyone is bad and we have receipts to prove it, and how things should be done.

Instead of going on non stop, just create a thread that people must read before becoming a member. List everything that's wrong, like the member count, and all the ways that things would improve if you were in charge.

Then you don't have to interrupt your members' meaningful conversations non stop with the same diatribes you've posted 25 other times already.
 
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I wasn't kidding on my original thread, I wish there was a 2nd location. I loved HPF. This place could be great. But you just can't shut the fuck up and let it grow organically.

Anywhere I turn it's the same thing. Even Okkus thread of hey guys had to deal with negative shit. Every response is keep your head up Oscar, stay positive, etc. The thread is literally titled "Too Much Negative Energy", yet any thread isn't complete unless you somehow make it about you and how the other place is run?

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I want there to be a great second place to hang with folks and interact, since I'm in this hobby in large part for the social aspect. I'm sincerely being nice when I say just shut. the. fuck. up. Maybe this place will grow and people will get involved and post if you just stop.

We were having a conversation, sharing insights, commiserating, etc. before your pointed ramble, but guess that's it for the day. See y'all, it was nice for the one day while it lasted.

edit to say I'm sick, I feel like shit, there was an enjoyable thread here, and it's just like cmon man eventually enough is enough. It's gonna be 2052 and we're still going to have to be sitting here listening to how someone can manipulate xenforo member counts. we fucking get it dude, I promise.
 
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